One of the many things that makes John Gorka's music so compelling is just how enduring his songs are. Whether written thirty years ago or yesterday, each album possess qualities that never get old. The songs travel well over the rough terrain of passing time, and as anyone who has heard even one of them knows, they are uniquely trans-formative in a way that few songs are. Like the stories of Raymond Carver , each one unravels the deep inner workings of humanity, in its simplicity and its complication, in the rough patches of the road and moments of crises where "people break down like machines" but still manage to end up on the "bright side of down". John paints the pictures of a world that is Human, all too beautifully, impossibly human. James: Looking back on your career of well over 30 years in music, the high and the low aspects, what sort of life lessons have you learned throughout your career? John: My general feeling about having done this for so long is gratitude, I feel like I'm one of the lucky ones. All of the good things in my life have come out of making music, being able to have a family and an audience has been great. The highs, that I get to play, I love playing music, I love writing songs, if there's people who show up at the shows it's a great thing and it's not something I take lightly. Lows, you know the music business can be fraught with pitfalls. I had some trouble with a record company a long time ago, and it turns out the good they did could not be undone, so the lows have kind of dissipated, and it's there as a cautionary tale that making music and the music business are not the same thing. One of the best things is the people I've gotten to work with, great producers, great musicians, other singer-songwriters, live and in the studio. James: With the live aspect, I've heard that performing doesn't come naturally, that you do have some anxiety, well, I would think anyone would, I don't know how any one does it, it doesn't seem natural to have all those eyes on you at once, how have you dealt with that aspect of it over the years? John: I was kind of drawn to performing but not all that comfortable doing it and I think over time I've just come to terms with my own discomfort, and I try not to pretend that I'm a person who is at ease with it, I think I've probably let the audience in on that idea that this may not be all that smooth, but it will be in the spirit of trying to make a connection and make good music. James: You've said that you view your music as sort of offering a refuge to other people, I'm wondering, in your early musical environment, growing up, who were the artists or the songs that sort of offered you that kind of refuge? John: My brother knows a lot about music and has good taste, so I think he sort of steered me towards good people. I was initially drawn to bluegrass music because I love the sound of the banjo, Flatt and Scruggs and Bill Monroe, and that led me into other kinds of music that had banjo on them. There was a radio station in New Jersey that I listened to growing up, I had it on one night and they played the whole album of Jonathan Edwards live, which had Bill Keith playing banjo on it, he was a really great banjo player, so the banjo kind of led me into the acoustic music world of songwriters. I saw Pete Seeger in 1975 in New Jersey at a blueberry festival, and that had an impact on me. Also reading Woody Guthrie's autobiography, Bound for Glory, that set me out on the path of wanting to become a folk singer. Also stuff I heard on the radio like the Beatles, The Beach Boys and Elvis, very early on. But when I started to play an instrument I kind of went toward the bluegrass, acoustic and singer-songwriter world, folk music in general. It wasn't like I said "Oh, I like folk music, Iv'e got to find out who does this", it was more the other way around. The people whose music I had liked, Judy Collins, Joan Baez, Janis Ian, Joni Mitchell, they all seemed to have names that began with the litter J, these were all people who seemed to have the word "folk" attached to them, that led me to think maybe there was more I would like if I explored a little bit. James: You liked the music first and it just sort of happened to be folk music. John: Exactly. And when I went to college I met some people who had really great record collections. My friend, Doug Anderson, was very generous in lending me some, we had a band called the Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band, it was a non traditional bluegrass band, I played banjo and sang on some of the songs. I loved learning about music. My dormitory was right across the street from the Bethlehem Public Library, and they had a wonderful record collection and a lot of books on music. I remember one book there that was called The Story of The Blues by Paul Oliver, about American blues and I just loved the stories of the players and the history of the music, there's something about that era of 1920's, 30's and 40's blues players, not that I was going to play the blues, but there was just something about that music and the whole atmosphere that those artists and musicians came from that still has a kind of special draw to me. James: It all sort of sits along a continuum, really, doesn't it, blues, folk and bluegrass? John: Yeah, it's probably all what they would call roots music. For me music is all about wanting to make a connection in ways that I can't do it off stage, all the ways I can't communicate personally, I can through music. Music is sort of the external analog of the inner life. The best music is the kind that strikes a universal bone. If it's done well it reflects a kind of common human quality. James: A lot of art, not just music, but even writing and painting, is trying to capture moments or things that are hard to express in everyday life, or in everyday words. John: Sometimes I have a way with language but more often than not language has it's way with me. I'm always aware of that fact, that I may not finish the next sentence that I start. James: Are you ever surprised by something you've written, going back over it? John: Oh yeah. I think that's kind of what I look for in the writing process, because I'm not sure where it's going to go, with songs it's all kind of a mysterious process, I don't always know where the song is leading me, and I try not to guide it in any way, I try to let the song be itself, and hopefully, if it's a good one, people will see themselves in it. One of the things that Bob Feldman, from Red House Records said, is that people want to see themselves in the songs, and I thought that was a great lesson. There's only so many kinds of big experiences that people have, there's an infinite number of variations, but essentially the big moments in a persons life are few and fairly uncommon. If I'm working on a song and I am surprised by something, I figure that is something that will surprise the listener as well, and engage them, getting their attention in a way that will make them want to listen to the song again and again. That's something I try to pay attention to with songs, where does this want to go, and what happens if I do this or that. My favorite place to be is in the middle of a song. James: One of those surprises I think is a line from 'A Saint's Complaint', "Good things come to those who ain't", that's a brilliant line. John: Well thanks, I wish I knew where all the good lines came from, I would just camp out there. You have to be grateful when they come and hope that they'll come again. James: There's something about folk music that I think has a lot in common with poetry, speaking to sort of bigger truths, they don't always have to be bigger truths, even the small but important, impactful details of everyday life. And a lot of popular music just isn't doing that, it was for awhile, in the 90's, but we're sort of awash in the absence of that, and I'm wondering do you think we'll ever return to something like that in popular culture again? John: I think so, if the need presents itself. And it's possible that the world we're coming into now will want that. In the last few years, especially, I've felt the need to write songs again, it seems like I tend to write more from need than want. Something Bob Dylan said once when he was asked why he hadn't put out a new record in a few years was "it hasn't been a good time for Bob Dylan music". I thought that was funny. I feel like now it may be a time when musicians and other artists are more needed, because there's a lot of despair out there, and I think music and other art forms tend to surprise people and change their outlook in a good way. And that may be more necessary as we come into the new era. James: And there's an ability to do it in a way, as with certain songs of yours, Houses in The Fields, for example, that leave a lot open to interpretation, and maybe they work better, I don't know, sometimes political songs maybe work better when they're not heavy handed, I don't know how you approach that. John: Absolutely, they have to be a good song first. Topical songs, by their very nature, have a pretty short shelf life. Even though a particular instance might bring on a song I try to look more for what it says about human nature so that it can go beyond the particular instance that may have inspired it. Even though the words will remain exactly the same the world will change and the songs will mean something different than they did when you first wrote them. It's almost like the songs are alive and they're not a fixed entity. James: Alive well past the moment they're speaking of, right? John: Yeah. James: Something else I've heard you say, that was interesting, is how with folk music, the music is bigger than the singer. John: Yeah, that was Jack Hardy's line, the song is more important than the singer. James: And you said that would be a real achievement if you could achieve that. I'm wondering have there been certain songs where it felt like the song had become bigger than you? John: Yeah. There's a song, Branching Out, which is about wanting to be a tree, it was on my first record, and people have told me that kids in elementary school sing that song, and they don't know who I am, but the song is part of their day. Just recently at one of my last shows I did in December in Eastern Pennsylvania, in Newhope, a woman came up to me who was the deputy mayor of a town in New Jersey where there was a move to change the zoning laws to make big room for smaller sized lots so they could build more houses, and I guess there was a law suit to stop that zoning change from happening, and during the presentation in the court room they used my recording of Houses in the Fields, with the presentation, to show what the landscape might look like if the zoning law went into effect. And the zoning change was voted down, so she said my song had real impact on that one local decision. That was a nice thing. James: That's got to be an incredible thing to hear. John: Yeah, It was kind of a nice way to end the year. James: I also wanted to ask you about Red Horse, how that collaboration came to be, whose idea that was? John: I'd been singing with Lucy Kaplansky since 1984, 32 years now, and Eliza Gilkyson I met in 2000, and I'd done shows with Lucy and Eliza, and Eliza had done shows with Lucy, and Eliza said "why don't we do some shows as the three of us", and Lucy's husband said "why don't you make a record?" So that's how that came about and we figured we'd give it a go. The shows were lots and lots of fun. So it worked out well. James: I'm wondering if you have any words of advice, not just for singer-songwriters, but for anyone who is creating something and struggling, rooting around in themselves trying to find themselves through the work? John: One of the things I think of, as my motto is, high standards, low overhead and realistic expectations. James: That's a great motto. Do you have any new projects in the works or tours planned? John: I'm working on some new songs and I hope to have a new record out the early part of next year. For more visit johngorka.com/ John's albums can be purchased directly from the record label at www.redhouserecords.com/
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